New Game Objective to reduce camping (Feedback plz)

[Onett]

Cornucopia:

(tl;dr A killstreak crate spawns at the center of the map 1.5 minutes into the game)

Description

1.5 minutes into a 4 team game (4 minutes on a 2 team), a chest will appear at the center of the map. 30 seconds before it drops, a chat message will announce

"The cornucopia arrives in 30 seconds!"​

After 30 seconds, the cornucopia will fall and land at the center of the map. A yellow firework particle will appear once it lands, and the chest will be labeled:

Cornucopia
Lootable
Crates Remaining: x​

This chest will function just like a supply crate you would get from a killstreak, with a few key differences:

1. It will only spawn if there are 20 players or more.
2. It can be looted by anyone
3. The cornucopia can contain more than 1 crate based on game size (It has a base capacity of 1 crate at 20 players, however for every 20 players added, its capacity increases by 1)
4. A player can only collect 1 crate max from the cornucopia
5. Crate will only yield 1 enderpearl and 1 steak, no diamond chestplate. Small chance for an extra pearl or steak.

After the cornucopia is completely looted, it will disappear. It will also disappear if it remains unlooted by the time poison or nuke come.

The main problem this idea will fix:

Most notably in 4 team maps, teams are forced to camp at base until nuke if they would like a chance at winning. On larger maps like Aztec and even small maps like Soaked Britches, this issue is prevalent. If you attack, you're just going to lose teammates and put your team in a vulnerable position for one of the other 2 teams to sweep in and clean up after. This leads to a long and boring waits for nuke in a lot of games.

This idea would also discourage camping in 2 team maps, which is a large nuisance to deal with since poison comes after a pretty long period of time.

Ways this idea will improve gameplay (for both 4 team and 2 team maps):

1.) Discourages camping

This is especially a problem on 4 team maps as stated previously, where teams are punished for attacking. The cornucopia would reward aggressive teams that can seize and control mid well. It can also enable the team that gets the cornucopia to use their crate loot to attack enemy teams. On a 2 team map, this would create a similar effect. If a team decides to camp base, they will lose much faster since they can't contest the cornucopia at mid. This would reduce the amount of games that go to poison, and punish campers for just sitting at base.

2.) Creates more action on the map

This connects back to the point listed above. Since teams are punished harder for just camping in base, people will be fighting more. On 4 team maps it would create a similar scenario as nuke, and would lead to more battles between all 4 teams.

3.) Creates more interesting gameplay and potential strategies

While the crate is definitely helpful for whichever team gets it, it definitely isn't game losing to not get any cornucopia loot. Thus it creates an interesting dynamic, where teams have to decide how much they want to commit in order to secure the cornucopia loot.

Teams would also have to choose who gets the loot, since in the right hands, the steak and the pearls could be very powerful. For example, a trigger getting the cornucopia would be really powerful, since it could just pearl in and get a really good suicide bomb off. However, it would be incredibly difficult for a trigger to secure the loot, and would require great help from its team. Its a balance between risk and reward.

Edits:

• Cornucopia loot nerfed to a guaranteed 1 pearl and 1 steak, small chance for an extra steak or pearl
• Cornucopia would spawn later on 2 team maps. They would spawn 4 minutes into the game

 

[Woaxa]

I don't think I'm personally a fan of this. It will make good players better and not do much for worse players. It'll be similar to adding back in buy signs, obviously not nearly as extreme, but it'll just end up being a way to snowball people into killstreaks.

Although a secondary objective could be interesting, I don't think this is the right move. I also think the pace of two team games is pretty good 90% of the time. The other 10% is just when you end up having two camping teams, 2 team games don't really go to poison at all.

 

[Onett]

I don't think I'm personally a fan of this. It will make good players better and not do much for worse players. It'll be similar to adding back in buy signs, obviously not nearly as extreme, but it'll just end up being a way to snowball people into killstreaks.

Although a secondary objective could be interesting, I don't think this is the right move. I also think the pace of two team games is pretty good 90% of the time. The other 10% is just when you end up having two camping teams, 2 team games don't really go to poison at all.

In retrospect, suggesting that this feature be added to 2 team as well as 4 team wasn’t the best idea. Most of the time, one team would already be winning at that point in the game, and it’s unnecessary to give the winning team free crates.

However, it’s worth noting that on campy maps like beanstalk and rival castles you sometimes don’t have the right kits to push and you have to wait for poison if you want to win. Maybe the cornucopia could come at 3-4 minutes into the game for 2 team maps, so it gives the attacking team a chance to end the game on campy maps faster rather than having to wait.

I don’t see how crates aren’t as helpful to less skilled players. A good player will utilize steak and pearls better but i don’t think that’s a fair critique since crate loot is ultimately helpful for anyone. Using steak and pearls well isn't that complex either, so the difference between a good player with crate vs bad player with crate can't really be attributed to how they use the crate.

I also don’t really understand the comparison to buy signs. Yes, getting the cornucopia gives you an advantage but it’s well deserved and nowhere near as easy as spamming steak and pearl buy signs at the start of the game. It helps you snowball but more importantly, it helps improve gameplay (especially 4 team maps) for reasons I already listed in my original post.

 

[Woaxa]

In retrospect, suggesting that this feature be added to 2 team as well as 4 team wasn’t the best idea. Most of the time, one team would already be winning at that point in the game, and it’s unnecessary to give the winning team free crates.

However, it’s worth noting that on campy maps like beanstalk and rival castles you sometimes don’t have the right kits to push and you have to wait for poison if you want to win. Maybe the cornucopia could come at 3-4 minutes into the game for 2 team maps, so it gives the attacking team a chance to end the game on campy maps faster rather than having to wait.

I don’t see how crates aren’t as helpful to less skilled players. A good player will utilize steak and pearls better but i don’t think that’s a fair critique since crate loot is ultimately helpful for anyone. Using steak and pearls well isn't that complex either, so the difference between a good player with crate vs bad player with crate can't really be attributed to how they use the crate.

I also don’t really understand the comparison to buy signs. Yes, getting the cornucopia gives you an advantage but it’s well deserved and nowhere near as easy as spamming steak and pearl buy signs at the start of the game. It helps you snowball but more importantly, it helps improve gameplay (especially 4 team maps) for reasons I already listed in my original post.

There's no 4 team variant of castles or beanstalk atm. I support 4 teams being smaller maps since thats when they play the best. Going back to two teams yeah sometimes you get that end game stalemate where its some campy kits and then some kits that cant push those campy kits in that area, it happens its just part of SnD. If something is ever too campy you still have poison in 6 minutes 30 seconds. Giving a free crate in any scenario is just not very "SnD" in my eyes if that makes any sense lol.

I also just woke up mere minutes ago so some of this might not make sense, but hopefully you get the gist.

 

[Imllay2]

I can see how a group of organized players could very easily take middle and any crates that happen to spawn. A good trooper is hard to kill but a trooper with steak and pearls without fighting like usual to get it doesn't seem balanced to me. If they're already good players, which they likely are if they're organized enough with their team to take the crate, it will be even more difficult defend against them. Following that logic it seems that the team who gets the crate(s) would just steamroll the other team every single game. Playing a campy game isn't any fun but neither is losing every game.

 

[Onett]

There's no 4 team variant of castles or beanstalk atm. I support 4 teams being smaller maps since thats when they play the best. Going back to two teams yeah sometimes you get that end game stalemate where its some campy kits and then some kits that cant push those campy kits in that area, it happens its just part of SnD. If something is ever too campy you still have poison in 6 minutes 30 seconds. Giving a free crate in any scenario is just not very "SnD" in my eyes if that makes any sense lol.

I also just woke up mere minutes ago so some of this might not make sense, but hopefully you get the gist.

Yea I get what you mean. Camping is less of an issue on small 4 team maps, but imo there's just a fundamental issue with 4 team maps. If you attack a team, another team will come in to clean up, or go arm your bomb. Small maps play the best but something to speed up the pace of the game would make gameplay even better. Even on small maps like Uncle T and Soaked Britches, the best move is often to play it safe and stay at your base, which I don't like. I might also be slightly biased since I feel like nuke fights where all 4 teams are fighting each other at once are the most fun part about 4 team maps, and I'd like to see more of those free for all scenarios.

Camping on 2 team maps isn't a pressing issue at all, but I still feel like what I'd suggested would be more fun than just having to wait for poison.

I can see how a group of organized players could very easily take middle and any crates that happen to spawn. A good trooper is hard to kill but a trooper with steak and pearls without fighting like usual to get it doesn't seem balanced to me. If they're already good players, which they likely are if they're organized enough with their team to take the crate, it will be even more difficult defend against them. Following that logic it seems that the team who gets the crate(s) would just steamroll the other team every single game. Playing a campy game isn't any fun but neither is losing every game.

I disagree with your statement about players easily controlling middle. Mid is a very vulnerable position. Even if your team is stacked and well organized, you're gonna get targeted by the 3 other teams if you try and dominate mid. Every other team is gonna be trying to get the crates too, they aren't gonna sit there and watch.

You bring up a fair point tho. The advantage that 1 or 2 players having up to 3 steak and/or pearls on your team is pretty oppressive now that I think about it. I think a more balanced alternative would be to give the player a guaranteed 1 steak and 1 pearl with a small chance for an extra pearl or steak. With these changes, I feel like it would provide a more reasonable advantage while still retaining its value as an objective.

 

[Hippydew]

I understand where this idea is coming from and I like what you’re trying to help solve. But I think it’s the same as what Imllay and Woaxa said. I think any team with the better players will always have a distinct advantage over lets say newer players or players at a lower skill level. I would try and take the actual COD game for example but we kind of use a more unique style to S&D. All I can really try and say is I don't think there can really be a way to solve the matters of camping, people just see it as another way of playing the game and you can't fault them for that. I guess they're just playing to their advantages. I do wish I was creative enough to even think of something like this though. It is a cool idea, I just don't think it's really necessary. Maybe instead just reduce the time till poison/nuke but that's a whole other conversation that could be had. Also reading the comments I think the small 1 steak and 1 pearl wouldn't be too bad considering the time of game, it's a nice touch to the suggestion. Either way I'm interested to see where this suggestion goes.